Hi Michael, On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Karl-Michael Schindler < karl-michael.schindler@physik.uni-halle.de> wrote:

Hi Matt

...

Demeter would certainly be easier. I think that we'd probably be better off choosing one of the "port Unix tools to OSX" systems. I don't have a strong opinion, and it's been awhile since I used Fink.

Opinions on Fink vs MacPorts (or the others) would be helpful.

Thanks,

...

Am 04.10.2016 um 19:00 schrieb ifeffit-request@millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov :

Message: 3 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 07:57:37 -0500 From: Matt Newville To: XAFS Analysis using Ifeffit Subject: Re: [Ifeffit] ifeffit on Mac OS X: fink package Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Michael,

Out of curiosity, is there a reason to prefer Fink over MacPorts (which has Ifeffit and Demeter already available)? I wouldn't say that MacPorts or wxPerl on MacPorts are perfect, but it does work for many of us.

As an aside, if you built ifeffit, building Larch should be much easier, assuming that the scientific python stack is available for Fink. It's basically "python setup.py install". Or, one can install Anaconda Python.

Also, Bruce and I have been working on getting to the point where Demeter uses Larch by default. Some of this is at https://github.com/bruceravel/demeter/pull/40, and Athena with Larch is working for me on Mac OSX. I think we have the basic functionality needed, and are at the testing and tweaking stage.

Making a MacPorts (and/or Fink?) installer for Larch looks like it would be pretty easy, and that could further simplify distribution for OSX. That is, Anaconda Python is very good, but means that one has to install Demeter with MacPorts and also Larch from an Anaconda channel. Using a single packaging system so that "<something> install demeter" installed Larch

Regarding Fink vs MacPorts:

Depending on the package, MacPorts is sometimes more recent package descriptions than Fink and has probably closer connection to apple. I have not much experience with homebrew and larch is my first try with anaconda.

In my opinion, the biggest difference is that Fink uses its own tree to install things (default /sw), whereas MacPorts uses /usr/local or /opt, which means that fink has a cleaner separation of what is installed through it or by other means. With a large number of packages, this gives Fink an advantage, when it comes to weeding out interfering stuff installed by other means, like from a disk image. In reverse, deleting all of /sw gives you a pretty clean table to restart Fink.

Thanks -- that helps my understanding. I do see some other packages use "/opt/" in addition to MacPorts. I've never sen a problem with that myself, but can believe it could happen.

Since MacPorts and Fink do not mix well, you have to make a decision at some point and the reason above (many packages) made me choose Fink. I started to use it as some sort of sophisticated note book, when i ported some software and with time i became package maintainer with commit right. My main activities are Pascal, tools for Fortran (in particular of type old school) and some science packages. Until now, i was always able to fix most problems, i encountered. That’s why I stick to Fink. For me, changing to another one, does not yield a big advantage. Therefore, the cost and effort of a change weigh more.

I'm totally sympathetic. I've used Fink before, but not for some time. The MacPorts port of Demeter more or less got me to use MacPorts instead, though I have basically no technical basis for that switch. It definitely makes installing Demeter much much easier!

My background/intentions:

My PhD student uses demeter on Windows, but i would like to be able to have a look at the results on my Mac.

In the recent past, i had goes at larch and demeter, but got stuck at various points with either outdated perl or python packages as well as a wx package not yet building on the latest OS X (10.12). With larch I made some progress using anaconda, but the resulting GUI apps crashed with 10.12. Maybe a code signing issue. My idea is to mimic the installation by anaconda and/or MacPorts as good as possible with Fink in order to get a working package. In detail, I think that i need to carefully check the versions of the dependencies and update fink packages accordingly. I am not much of a hero when it comes to Python or Perl, but sure enough, if I can contribute to larch/demeter i will report it. I do not have any objections against MacPorts of Homebrew, but consider the scripts within the fink package descriptions obvious enough that it should not be a big problem to port them to MacPorts or Homebrew for someone, who is familiar with those systems and i am willing to help. No interest in a holy war of any kind ;-)

I haven't moved to OS X 10.12 yet, my laptop keeps insisting it wants Siri to start talking to me. I'm slightly reluctant as it looks from many sources that it will be slightly painful -- I've seen notices of issues with wxPython too, and it looked like a more serious problem than the "non-approved developers" thing.

The python packages look easier to me. I got the impression that python 2.7 based larch is the most stable one. Therefore, i think to start with that one and once that is at least working continue on the python 3.5 based one. Correct me if i am wrong on this. I am afraid that Demeter is a heavier task, since the current version of perl on OSX is 5.18.2. Not sure yet, how to proceed there. Setting up the package description for a newer version of perl sounds like overkill for the amount of time and effort i can contribute, but time will show.

Right now, Larch is "Python 2.7 preferred", basically due to wxPython which is not yet stable-and-supported for Python 3.5. In tests, almost everything in Larch actually works for me with Python 3.5. Hopefully, we'll be able to switch within a year or so, and then have to support Python 2.7 for another year, then be Python3 only. This timescale looks to be about consistent with many other scientific Python tools -- we're not ahead of the curve, but we're not far behind it. I would be happy to have a working „fink install demeter“. I have some

background in creating Fink based GUI applications and even disk images with standalone applications using Makefiles. But one step after the other.

Installing Demeter on Mac OSX has been a continuing struggle, at least partly due to continued maintainers, and also partly due to troubles building wxPerl on OSX with clang/llvm from wxPerl sources. Neither of those are actually problems with Demeter. MacPorts does provide wxPerl, which is a huge benefit. Sounds like this is a vivid and comforting community, where i would enjoy

to contribute.

Great! Cheers,

Michael.

P.S. This became a long post. _______________________________________________ Ifeffit mailing list Ifeffit@millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov http://millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/ifeffit Unsubscribe: http://millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov/mailman/options/ifeffit

--Matt Newville