[Ifeffit] ifeffit on Mac OS X: fink package

Fri Oct 7 16:39:08 CDT 2016

Hi Michael,

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Karl-Michael Schindler <
karl-michael.schindler at physik.uni-halle.de> wrote:

> Hi Matt
>
> > Am 04.10.2016 um 19:00 schrieb ifeffit-request at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov
> :
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 07:57:37 -0500
> > From: Matt Newville <newville at cars.uchicago.edu>
> > To: XAFS Analysis using Ifeffit <ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov>
> > Subject: Re: [Ifeffit] ifeffit on Mac OS X: fink package
> > Message-ID:
> >       <CA+7ESboGXfXnNWqaKYxSFHsUuwq7rG3E91x0_1x2C1E8bEesMw at mail.gmail.
> com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > Out of curiosity, is there a reason to prefer Fink over MacPorts (which
> has
> > Ifeffit and Demeter already available)?   I wouldn't say that MacPorts or
> > wxPerl on MacPorts are perfect, but it does work for many of us.
> >
> > As an aside, if you built ifeffit, building Larch should be much easier,
> > assuming that the scientific python stack is available for Fink.  It's
> > basically "python setup.py install".  Or, one can install Anaconda
> Python.
> >
> > Also, Bruce and I have been working on getting to the point where Demeter
> > uses Larch by default.   Some of this is at
> > https://github.com/bruceravel/demeter/pull/40, and Athena with Larch is
> > working for me on Mac OSX.    I think we have the basic functionality
> > needed, and are at the testing and tweaking stage.
> >
> > Making a MacPorts (and/or Fink?) installer for Larch looks like it would
> be
> > pretty easy, and that could further simplify distribution for OSX.   That
> > is, Anaconda Python is very good, but means that one has to install
> Demeter
> > with MacPorts and also Larch from an Anaconda channel.  Using a single
> > packaging system so that  "<something> install demeter"  installed Larch
> +
> > Demeter would certainly be easier.  I think that we'd probably be better
> > off choosing one of the "port Unix tools to OSX" systems. I don't have a
> > strong opinion, and it's been awhile since I used Fink.
> >
> > Opinions on Fink vs MacPorts (or the others) would be helpful.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> Regarding Fink vs MacPorts:
>
> Depending on the package, MacPorts is sometimes more recent package
> descriptions than Fink and has probably closer connection to apple. I have
> not much experience with homebrew and larch is my first try with anaconda.
>
> In my opinion, the biggest difference is that Fink uses its own tree to
> install things (default /sw), whereas MacPorts uses /usr/local or /opt,
> which means that fink has a cleaner separation of what is installed through
> it or by other means. With a large number of packages, this gives Fink an
> advantage, when it comes to weeding out interfering stuff installed by
> other means, like from a disk image. In reverse, deleting all of /sw gives
> you a pretty clean table to restart Fink.
>
>
Thanks -- that helps my understanding.  I do see some other packages use
"/opt/" in addition to MacPorts.  I've never sen a problem with that
myself, but can believe it could happen.

> Since MacPorts and Fink do not mix well, you have to make a decision at
> some point and the reason above (many packages) made me choose Fink. I
> started to use it as some sort of sophisticated note book, when i ported
> some software and with time i became package maintainer with commit right.
> My main activities are Pascal, tools for Fortran (in particular of type old
> school) and some science packages. Until now, i was always able to fix most
> problems, i encountered. That’s why I stick to Fink. For me, changing to
> another one, does not yield a big advantage. Therefore, the cost and effort
> of a change weigh more.
>
>
I'm totally sympathetic.  I've used Fink before, but not for some time.
The MacPorts port of Demeter more or less got me to use MacPorts instead,
though I have basically no technical basis for that switch.    It
definitely makes installing Demeter much much easier!

> My background/intentions:
>
> My PhD student uses demeter on Windows, but i would like to be able to
> have a look at the results on my Mac.
>
> In the recent past, i had goes at larch and demeter, but got stuck at
> various points with either outdated perl or python packages as well as a wx
> package not yet building on the latest OS X (10.12). With larch I made some
> progress using anaconda, but the resulting GUI apps crashed with 10.12.
> Maybe a code signing issue. My idea is to mimic the installation by
> anaconda and/or MacPorts as good as possible with Fink in order to get a
> working package. In detail, I think that i need to carefully check the
> versions of the dependencies and update fink packages accordingly. I am not
> much of a hero when it comes to Python or Perl, but sure enough, if I can
> contribute to larch/demeter i will report it. I do not have any objections
> against MacPorts of Homebrew, but consider the scripts within the fink
> package descriptions obvious enough that it should not be a big problem to
> port them to MacPorts or Homebrew for someone, who is familiar with those
> systems and i am willing to help. No interest in a holy war of any kind ;-)
>
>
I haven't moved to OS X 10.12 yet, my laptop keeps insisting it wants Siri
to start talking to me.  I'm slightly reluctant as it looks from many
sources that it will be slightly painful -- I've seen notices of issues
with wxPython too, and it looked like a more serious problem than the
"non-approved developers" thing.

> The python packages look easier to me. I got the impression that python
> 2.7 based larch is the most stable one. Therefore, i think to start with
> that one and once that is at least working continue on the python 3.5 based
> one. Correct me if i am wrong on this. I am afraid that Demeter is a
> heavier task, since the current version of perl on OSX is 5.18.2. Not sure
> yet, how to proceed there. Setting up the package description for a newer
> version of perl sounds like overkill for the amount of time and effort i
> can contribute, but time will show.
>

Right now, Larch is "Python 2.7 preferred", basically due to wxPython which
is not yet stable-and-supported for Python 3.5.
In tests, almost everything in Larch actually works for me with Python
3.5.  Hopefully, we'll be able to switch within a year or so, and then have
to support Python 2.7 for another year, then be Python3 only.    This
timescale looks to be about consistent with many other scientific Python
tools -- we're not ahead of the curve, but we're not far behind it.

I would be happy to have a working „fink install demeter“. I have some
> background in creating Fink based GUI applications and even disk images
> with standalone applications using Makefiles. But one step after the other.
>

Installing Demeter on Mac OSX has been a continuing struggle, at least
partly due to continued maintainers, and also partly due to troubles
building wxPerl on OSX with clang/llvm from wxPerl sources.   Neither of
those are actually problems with Demeter.

MacPorts does provide wxPerl, which is a huge benefit.

Sounds like this is a vivid and comforting community, where i would enjoy
> to contribute.
>
>
Great!  Cheers,

> Michael.
>
> P.S. This became a long post.
> _______________________________________________
> Ifeffit mailing list
> Ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov
> http://millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/ifeffit
> Unsubscribe: http://millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov/mailman/options/ifeffit
>

--Matt Newville
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov/pipermail/ifeffit/attachments/20161007/f3420240/attachment.html>