[Ifeffit] Kapton in glove box (Todd Monson)
bravel at bnl.gov
bravel at bnl.gov
Thu Aug 6 11:45:56 CDT 2009
Todd,
Try kaptontape.com. They have a nice selection.
B
Sent on the Now Network™ from my Sprint® BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Monson, Todd" <tmonson at sandia.gov>
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:47:58
To: ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov<ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov>
Subject: Re: [Ifeffit] Kapton in glove box (Todd Monson)
Thanks for all your comments regarding kapton tape and measuring air and moisture sensitive compounds. Many of my samples are indeed air sensitive and not just moisture sensitive (iron nanoparticles). If my particles are dispersed in solvent will the kapton be resistant to that solvent (at least during the time that the solvent is evaporating from the tape in the glove box)? Darek mentioned kapton dots - could you tell me where I can purchase these?
Thanks again for everyone's help, I thought this mailing list was primarily for software related questions but I am finding it is useful to get help on any XAFS related questions.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: August 06, 2009 1:50 AM
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Subject: Ifeffit Digest, Vol 78, Issue 3
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Kapton in glove box (Scott Calvin)
2. Re: Kapton in glove box (Zajac, Dariusz A.)
3. Re: Kapton in glove box (Maurits van den Berg)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:47:48 -0400
From: Scott Calvin <SCalvin at slc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ifeffit] Kapton in glove box
To: XAFS Analysis using Ifeffit <ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov>
Cc: Scott Calvin <scalvin at slc.edu>
Message-ID: <025FE360-0E9F-4421-A22D-2074D838AFB7 at slc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Good point on the cardboard, Richard. I always pre-cut strips of Kapton tape, so that I wasn't bringing in cardboard at all.
--Scott Calvin
Sarah Lawrence College
On Aug 5, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Richard Mayes wrote:
> Todd,
>
> Are you working with oxygen sensitive or moisture sensitive samples
> (or both)? If it's just moisture sensitive, then you can use regular
> 2-sided tape from your local office supply and polypropylene film to
> seal samples in polycarbonate or aluminum holders (or even pellets if
> you're lucky enough to be able to press pellets that hold their
> shape). Chemplex Industries is where I have gotten the polypropylene
> films I have used (and Kapton as well - www.findtape.com also has a
> good selection of Kapton tape).
>
> I used this method with many samples that involved heavily chlorided
> titanium on silica and had few problems if they're used within 5-7
> days after packing in a glove box (the samples with problems resulted
> from improperly sealed samples). You can get jars (baby food jars
> work very well to ship individual samples) to store the samples for
> shipping and if you pack the jars in the glove box, you will have the
> box atmosphere in the jars, for a little while anyway.
>
> A note on oxygen sensitivity (and to an extent moisture
> sensitivity): you probably already know this, but I'll say it
> anyway...if cardboard is present in the role of Kapton tape, you may
> have oxygen/water diffusion from the cardboard for a few days after
> you take it into the box. Our rule of thumb was to pull vacuum on
> anything involving cardboard for at least 48 hrs before taking it into
> the box. All that to say, take your supplies into the box a few days
> ahead of time to allow your box catalyst to take care of any residual
> oxygen/water that make their way in.
>
> HTH,
> -Richard
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:25:15 +0200
From: "Zajac, Dariusz A." <dariusz.zajac at desy.de>
Subject: Re: [Ifeffit] Kapton in glove box
To: "XAFS Analysis using Ifeffit" <ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <35E004AD6290A7438FCA34BBF325F4168BC1DC at ADXV2.win.desy.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Todd, Dears Alls,
in my lab (Hasylab) many EXAFS users use the glovebox to prepare "air sensitive" samples. We do not know a lot about your samples, but I can say from practical aspect, that in the most cases the sample preperation in the glove box and then closing it in the Kapton tape is sufficient.
Some of the users like one side adhesive Kapton dots, which fits to the size of pelets we use (in our case it is 13 mm of diameter). Some of the users use also plastic bags mounted in the glove box on the sample holder to avoid the sample contact with air during the transport to experiment area.
I have also one comment - be aware of some Kaptons - I found that some of them contain a lot of trace elements.
best regards
darek
-----Original Message-----
From: ifeffit-bounces at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov
[mailto:ifeffit-bounces at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Scott Calvin
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:27 AM
To: Todd Monson; XAFS Analysis using Ifeffit
Subject: [Ifeffit] Kapton in glove box
Hi Todd,
I've taken the liberty of posting your question to the Ifeffit mailing list. You're likely to get more accurate and quicker answers to these kinds of questions there.
(For the rest of you: Todd is asking about the technique of preparing air-sensitive samples in a glove box, putting them on Kapton tape, sealing them in plastic bags, and transporting them to the beamline, shooting right through the bags.)
I'll take my shots, though:
It's hard for me to imagine adsorbed oxygen on the Kapton being more significant than the other sources of stray oxygen that can be present in a glove box. After all, the Kapton's in there too. And I don't think it's going to be more significant than the oxygen that diffuses through the plastic bags during transport.
The thinner the Kapton tape, the better, as that will minimize the absorption due to the tape. It used to be hard to find 1 mil Kapton tape with adhesive, but now it's easy. Hephaestus will give you the absorption of Kapton, so you can judge how big an effect it will be at the energies at which you'll work.
--Scott Calvin
Sarah Lawrence College
On Aug 4, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Monson, Todd wrote:
Scott,
Thanks. Is it pretty reasonable to assume that the kapton tape that you put your samples on doesn't have any adsorbed oxygen that could affect your samples? Do you do anything to clean the kapton? Where are some good places to buy the kapton (and do you need to purchase rather thin kapton tape for doing XAFS)?
Thanks again,
Todd
From: Scott Calvin
Sent: August 04, 2009 11:34 AM
To: Monson, Todd
Cc: Scott Calvin
Subject: Re: mossbauer
Hi Todd,
Regular zip-loc bags work just fine. For heat sealers I've used everything from a heat sealer manufactured for the purpose to a little propane torch--even a cigarette lighter should work. Putting one sealed bag inside another, if the energy you're working at allows it, seems to work quite well.
--Scott
On Aug 4, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Monson, Todd wrote:
Scott,
I had another question - what kind of plastic bags and heat sealers do you use for sealing up your air-sensitive XAFS samples?
And where could I buy them?
Thanks,
Todd
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:50:06 +0200
From: Maurits van den Berg <maurits.vandenberg at techem.rub.de>
Subject: Re: [Ifeffit] Kapton in glove box
To: XAFS Analysis using Ifeffit <ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <4A7A8B2E.1090601 at techem.rub.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Todd,
The use of Kapton sticky tape for ambient-sensitive samples works quite well. We usually transport samples from our lab in Ar-filled schlenk flasks, and press the pellets in the glove box at Hasylab (see also Darek's reply).
In my experience, Kapton tape sufficiently protects the sample for one or two days. After that, oxygen diffusion can be noticed in the spectra.
Best wishes,
Maurits.
Scott Calvin wrote:
> Good point on the cardboard, Richard. I always pre-cut strips of
> Kapton tape, so that I wasn't bringing in cardboard at all.
>
> --Scott Calvin
> Sarah Lawrence College
>
> On Aug 5, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Richard Mayes wrote:
>
>> Todd,
>>
>> Are you working with oxygen sensitive or moisture sensitive samples
>> (or both)? If it's just moisture sensitive, then you can use regular
>> 2-sided tape from your local office supply and polypropylene film to
>> seal samples in polycarbonate or aluminum holders (or even pellets if
>> you're lucky enough to be able to press pellets that hold their
>> shape). Chemplex Industries is where I have gotten the polypropylene
>> films I have used (and Kapton as well - www.findtape.com
>> <http://www.findtape.com> also has a good selection of Kapton tape).
>>
>> I used this method with many samples that involved heavily chlorided
>> titanium on silica and had few problems if they're used within 5-7
>> days after packing in a glove box (the samples with problems resulted
>> from improperly sealed samples). You can get jars (baby food jars
>> work very well to ship individual samples) to store the samples for
>> shipping and if you pack the jars in the glove box, you will have the
>> box atmosphere in the jars, for a little while anyway.
>>
>> A note on oxygen sensitivity (and to an extent moisture
>> sensitivity): you probably already know this, but I'll say it
>> anyway...if cardboard is present in the role of Kapton tape, you may
>> have oxygen/water diffusion from the cardboard for a few days after
>> you take it into the box. Our rule of thumb was to pull vacuum on
>> anything involving cardboard for at least 48 hrs before taking it
>> into the box. All that to say, take your supplies into the box a few
>> days ahead of time to allow your box catalyst to take care of any
>> residual oxygen/water that make their way in.
>>
>> HTH,
>> -Richard
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ifeffit mailing list
> Ifeffit at millenia.cars.aps.anl.gov
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>
--
Dr. M.W.E. van den Berg
Ruhr Universitaet Bochum
Lehrstuhl fuer Technische Chemie
Gebaeude NBCF-Sued 04/686
Universitaetsstrasse 150
44780 Bochum
Germany
Tel.: +49-234-3226907
Fax: +49-234-3214115
E-mail: Maurits.vandenberg at techem.rub.de
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